Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect the end times?
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Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect the... - 11/17/2008 10:13:35 PM
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mattj4792
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President-elect Barack Obama intends to pursue a Mideast peace policy that calls on Israel to revert to its pre-1967 borders in return for official diplomatic recognition by the Arab world.
A senior Obama adviser told the London Times that Obama will throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative that also has been endorsed by Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the Arab League, and Israeli President Shimon Peres.
Under the plan:
1. Israel would be able to veto the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948.
2. Israel would restore the Golan Heights to Syria.
3. Palestinians would be allowed to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.
According to the senior adviser, Obama has said privately that Israel would be "crazy" to reject such a plan, since it would "give them peace with the Muslim world."
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/israel_obama_peace/2008/11/15/151708.html?s=al&promo_code=7167-1
How does this effect the timing of the start of the tribulation or rapture?
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/17/2008 10:31:32 PM
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Milliecat
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How many times will Israel trust that they will receive peace by giving up land only to be victims again? I do not think they should give up any more land. Giving up the Golan Heights would lessen their security against the enemies. And I absolutely think that letting the Palestinians govern their own side of Jerusalem would be a huge mistake. The Dome of the Rock is there where the temple once stood. If they agree to this they will not be any safer than they are today. And if he talks them into this then just maybe he is the man of sin.
About how it would effect the timing of the Rapture or Great Tribulation, I don't know.
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/17/2008 11:14:42 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3965
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
President-elect Barack Obama intends to pursue a Mideast peace policy that calls on Israel to revert to its pre-1967 borders in return for official diplomatic recognition by the Arab world.
A senior Obama adviser told the London Times that Obama will throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative that also has been endorsed by Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the Arab League, and Israeli President Shimon Peres.
Under the plan:
1. Israel would be able to veto the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948.
2. Israel would restore the Golan Heights to Syria.
3. Palestinians would be allowed to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.
According to the senior adviser, Obama has said privately that Israel would be "crazy" to reject such a plan, since it would "give them peace with the Muslim world."
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/israel_obama_peace/2008/11/15/151708.html?s=al&promo_code=7167-1
How does this effect the timing of the start of the tribulation or rapture?
It doesn't.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 12:33:44 AM
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bob97
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What makes you so sure Cow? If you say no you must have some information to base your statement on.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 1:00:38 AM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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Sadly enough the wants of the people are not always the fuel that drives political decisions. Most often it is about power and greed at the expense of the people.
Seldom does the majority rule but we need to say OOH-RAH for California on the marriage amendment thought.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 6:08:38 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2012
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
President-elect Barack Obama intends to pursue a Mideast peace policy that calls on Israel to revert to its pre-1967 borders in return for official diplomatic recognition by the Arab world.
A senior Obama adviser told the London Times that Obama will throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative that also has been endorsed by Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the Arab League, and Israeli President Shimon Peres.
Under the plan:
1. Israel would be able to veto the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948.
2. Israel would restore the Golan Heights to Syria.
3. Palestinians would be allowed to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.
According to the senior adviser, Obama has said privately that Israel would be "crazy" to reject such a plan, since it would "give them peace with the Muslim world."
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/israel_obama_peace/2008/11/15/151708.html?s=al&promo_code=7167-1
How does this effect the timing of the start of the tribulation or rapture?
It doesn't.
Amen to that.
Jesus said that no one knows the day or the hour.
I have not heard much on Obama's plan for Israel, but if what is said is true, then I say go for it. This is one stance I can agree with Obama on.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 8:25:04 AM
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SonicStudent
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I can see both sides regarding this possible deal. However, one thing that comes to mind is this;
Israel becoming a nation again after two thousand years in nothing short of a miracle. I watched a documentary some years ago that showed other nations that were scattered across surrounding nations. If they didn't manage to reclaim their home land within 2 generations, the mingling with other peoples disbanded them so badly, it wasn't likely they would ever reclaim their home land again. Yet here we see Israel come home after nearly 2000 years. Not only that, but they did this after being scattered again and again, everywhere they went and still managed to come home and establish Israel, and do this with hatred against them from every quarter. Then also, we see them distroy their enemies against all the odds in the six day war. A victory that by many has been called one of the greatest military campaigns ever under-taken.
My point is; Obviously God has brought them home, to eventually fulfil his promises to their fathers. In light of that, I wouldn't be quick to try and give away the land promised clearly to Abraham and the fathers of Israel, because eventually, (and I think already has done) God is going to fight for this land and against those that would wrongfully want to take it away from Abraham and the children of Israel.
I know peace is important, but would it really result in peace? Because ultimate peace is going to flow from Israel with the returned Christ. He has to have a land left from where to establish the promises made to the fathers and spread that perfect peace out from.
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 8:30:28 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2012
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I can see both sides regarding this possible deal. However, one thing that comes to mind is this;
Israel becoming a nation again after two thousand years in nothing short of a miracle. I watched a documentary some years ago that showed other nations that were scattered across surrounding nations. If they didn't manage to reclaim their home land within 2 generations, the mingling with other peoples disbanded them so badly, it wasn't likely they would ever reclaim their home land again. Yet here we see Israel come home after nearly 2000 years. Not only that, but they did this after being scattered again and again, everywhere they went and still managed to come home and establish Israel, and do this with hatred against them from every quarter. Then also, we see them distroy their enemies against all the odds in the six day war. A victory that by many has been called one of the greatest military campaigns ever under-taken.
My point is; Obviously God has brought them home, to eventually fulfil his promises to their fathers. In light of that, I wouldn't be quick to try and give away the land promised clearly to Abraham and the fathers of Israel, because eventually, (and I think already has done) God is going to fight for this land and against those that would wrongfully want to take it away from Abraham and the children of Israel.
I know peace is important, but would it really result in peace? Because ultimate peace is going to flow from Israel with the returned Christ. He has to have a land left from where to establish the promises made to the fathers and spread that perfect peace out from.
Sonic
Do you have scripture for all that supposition?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 9:28:44 AM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
Joined: 10/14/2008
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At least The Palestinians understood which city to make their capital! Tel Aviv? (Cross of 'el' The Life!)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
President-elect Barack Obama intends to pursue a Mideast peace policy that calls on Israel to revert to its pre-1967 borders in return for official diplomatic recognition by the Arab world.
A senior Obama adviser told the London Times that Obama will throw his support behind a 2002 Saudi peace initiative that also has been endorsed by Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, the Arab League, and Israeli President Shimon Peres.
Under the plan:
1. Israel would be able to veto the return of Arab refugees expelled in 1948.
2. Israel would restore the Golan Heights to Syria.
3. Palestinians would be allowed to establish a state capital in east Jerusalem.
According to the senior adviser, Obama has said privately that Israel would be "crazy" to reject such a plan, since it would "give them peace with the Muslim world."
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/israel_obama_peace/2008/11/15/151708.html?s=al&promo_code=7167-1
How does this effect the timing of the start of the tribulation or rapture?
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/18/2008 5:05:53 PM >
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 9:43:11 AM
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jerowhy
Posts: 71
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The house of Judea was Prophesied concerning that The Kingdom was taken and given to those who will bear the Fruits of Goodness, Kindness, Faith... Your house left to you barren, if you knew what would bring Peace is Written. The True Israel are The Children of The Holy One's Lady as written. They are diasporad among the babylonians all over the world as The Apostle Testified. They are those who have The Kingdom in Their Hearts. For Christ has hidden the wealth of Treasures of Heaven in the hearts of Peoples whereby Eve is the mother of all of The Living for God is The God of The Living, not of the dead. We are dead in the wages of sin, but God Gave The Fullness of Life in The Son of Man. He came that He may grant Gracious Life to all who believe on Him for the Gentiles have hung their hopes upon Him; The King of All Creation The King of Peace in the divisions. Peace is that those who turn would be healed of their affliction in the renewing of their inner being Graciously Conferred by Jesus. All things made for Him and through Him and in Him they have their being. If anything is Good, it is from God. That the world's discernment for what is called 'good' is only evil, for The Spirit comes to bring coviction concerning all things whatsoever was spoken concerning The Messiah.
Therefore, there is freedom in Christ to speak properly not in accordance with the law of the sinful nature of the inner being influenced by darkness and evil. How can anyone who is evil say anything Good? Therefore, anything that is a Good Gift comes from God. For whatever one does, they do as a service to God. Yet, the days are coming when anyone who kills you will claim that they are serving God; but murder is from the evil one.
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/18/2008 5:07:11 PM >
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 10:52:54 AM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 433
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quote:
Do you have scripture for all that supposition?
What, that God promised this land to Abraham for ever, or that He will call his people back from exile?
Do you really require an answer to that - My goodness me!
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/18/2008 11:12:49 AM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:01:14 AM
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SonicStudent
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No matter what you say, it is clear that God has not finished with Israel, the promises of God are without repentance. Although it is true that all the promises of God are given to us through faith in Christ, this in noway nullifies God's promises to Israel.
I'm not going to argue over this, it is up to you to come to your own conclusions over the scriptures. As far as i'm concerned here, it is clear in both new and old testaments that God has promised that all Israel will be saved and that the land is promised forever to them. Ultimately, once Israel has come into obedience the land will be theirs forever, with Christ as King.
Paul made it plain that the remnant of Israel will be grafted back into their own olive tree and that peace will flow from Israel.
You are entitled to interpret the scriptures yourself how you see fit. I feel I understand the scriptures clearly enough on this. If you wish to find the scriptures that back this up, I suggest you get reading LOL
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:10:29 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2003
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From: Kansas
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Jerowhy...I take it that you don't see your future connected to Israel and that the Church is supreme? Actually you will not see Christ until such time as Israel cries out for His return.
By the way...you should work to simplify your post and bring them down to a level that the rest of us can understand. Frankly the way they are worded I find myself drifting away before finishing but I’m a little slow so maybe it’s just me. 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:33:49 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2012
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
No matter what you say, it is clear that God has not finished with Israel, the promises of God are without repentance. Although it is true that all the promises of God are given to us through faith in Christ, this in noway nullifies God's promises to Israel.
I'm not going to argue over this, it is up to you to come to your own conclusions over the scriptures. As far as i'm concerned here, it is clear in both new and old testaments that God has promised that all Israel will be saved and that the land is promised forever to them. Ultimately, once Israel has come into obedience the land will be theirs forever, with Christ as King.
Paul made it plain that the remnant of Israel will be grafted back into their own olive tree and that peace will flow from Israel.
You are entitled to interpret the scriptures yourself how you see fit. I feel I understand the scriptures clearly enough on this. If you wish to find the scriptures that back this up, I suggest you get reading LOL
Israel came out of exile before Jesus came to earth.
The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. as Jesus prophesied to show there was no need for a physical temple and that Jesus was the final sacrifice.
There is no need for another physical temple or more sacrifices.
Not all Israel is of Israel, as Paul has also stated.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:42:19 AM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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TheosCentric...tell me who is the Revelation about...is it about the Church or Israel?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:46:10 AM
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SonicStudent
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I did not say that Israel were going to build a temple. merely that scriture is clear to me. Israel has been promised this land forever, because of God's promises to the fathers. This doesn't mean that God said he wouldn't send them into exile as a punishment, but that He will gather Israel after their time of punishment, and that this land will always be theirs.
Time will tell, but I personally don't believe that God was being symbolic refering to the church only, but also quite literally. Christ will return to an Israel, quite literally, that will need His protection. And Christ will give that protection, and Israel will be saved, and her children will believe in Christ.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:49:20 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
TheosCentric...tell me who is the Revelation about...is it about the Church or Israel?
Bob
Both.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 11:50:44 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2012
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I did not say that Israel were going to build a temple. merely that scriture is clear to me. Israel has been promised this land forever, because of God's promises to the fathers. This doesn't mean that God said he wouldn't send them into exile as a punishment, but that He will gather Israel after their time of punishment, and that this land will always be theirs.
Time will tell, but I personally don't believe that God was being symbolic refering to the church only, but also quite literally. Christ will return to an Israel, quite literally, that will need His protection. And Christ will give that protection, and Israel will be saved, and her children will believe in Christ.
Scripture please?
I would also ask, for what purpose would all that have, if the Old Testament was pointing to Christ and Christ said that he fulfilled the prophecies spoken about Him?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 12:00:11 PM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 433
Joined: 10/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I did not say that Israel were going to build a temple. merely that scriture is clear to me. Israel has been promised this land forever, because of God's promises to the fathers. This doesn't mean that God said he wouldn't send them into exile as a punishment, but that He will gather Israel after their time of punishment, and that this land will always be theirs.
Time will tell, but I personally don't believe that God was being symbolic refereeing to the church only, but also quite literally. Christ will return to an Israel, quite literally, that will need His protection. And Christ will give that protection, and Israel will be saved, and her children will believe in Christ.
Scripture please?
I would also ask, for what purpose would all that have, if the Old Testament was pointing to Christ and Christ said that he fulfilled the prophecies spoken about Him?
Just because the purposes of God's word was to lead to Christ doesn't mean that God will Just TRASH Israel, or His promises to them. He makes it clear that His love for Israel and His promises are forever.
LOL I've done the studies on this, it took a long time. You've got a Bible, i'm not here to prove anything to you, do your own study and find your own bloomin' scriptures LOL. I'm happy with what I know of God's promises and how he 'literally' will keep each one.
You've heard my view, I know your view. points made!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 12:50:17 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2012
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
I did not say that Israel were going to build a temple. merely that scriture is clear to me. Israel has been promised this land forever, because of God's promises to the fathers. This doesn't mean that God said he wouldn't send them into exile as a punishment, but that He will gather Israel after their time of punishment, and that this land will always be theirs.
Time will tell, but I personally don't believe that God was being symbolic refereeing to the church only, but also quite literally. Christ will return to an Israel, quite literally, that will need His protection. And Christ will give that protection, and Israel will be saved, and her children will believe in Christ.
Scripture please?
I would also ask, for what purpose would all that have, if the Old Testament was pointing to Christ and Christ said that he fulfilled the prophecies spoken about Him?
Just because the purposes of God's word was to lead to Christ doesn't mean that God will Just TRASH Israel, or His promises to them. He makes it clear that His love for Israel and His promises are forever.
LOL I've done the studies on this, it took a long time. You've got a Bible, i'm not here to prove anything to you, do your own study and find your own bloomin' scriptures LOL. I'm happy with what I know of God's promises and how he 'literally' will keep each one.
You've heard my view, I know your view. points made!
I've heard your view, but not the scripture to back it up. Just because you've done years of Bible study, doesn't make it right.
Nobody's talking about trashing Israel. God's promises hold true for His children. Gentiles become part of Israel through Jesus Christ. They inherit all the promises made to Abraham. Paul details this in Romans 4, 6, 9, and Galatians.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 1:10:45 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2003
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From: Kansas
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quote:
Nobody's talking about trashing Israel. God's promises hold true for His children. Gentiles become part of Israel through Jesus Christ. They inherit all the promises made to Abraham. Paul details this in Romans 4, 6, 9, and Galatians.
Can't argue with any of your statement here Theos.
I think the point is that all promises will be fulfilled to Israel and that includes the land promised to them. That is from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates of which Israel has never possessed.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 1:12:24 PM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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With Genesis 15:18 and Joshua 1:4 in mind, the land God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile river in Egypt to Lebanon (North to South) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (West to East). So, what land has God stated belongs to Israel? All of the land modern Israel currently possesses, plus all of the land of the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land God has promised.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 1:52:30 PM
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jerowhy
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The Gospel teaches us that Israel will be regathered, and is. God is Supreme among the nations and Peoples, and especially those that have Faith in Christ Jesus. Those that bear Fruits of The Kingdom are of The Kingdom, those that do not are not. Wheat and tares is the diaspora. Israel was diasporad as was Egypt for awhile for Babylon gathers from among many waters, but We Have The Living Water; The Spirit of God. There are many Gifts that God gives, but One Spirit; The Great Spirit; The Holy Spirit; For God Is Spirit and must be worshipped In Spirit and In Truth. There are many camps, there is one campground. There are many folds for sheep, But there is only one Shepherd. For How Rich do we understand that God would be that He would have many horses and many stables and many sheep pens and many pens for other animals before The Coming of The Great and Terrible Day of God's Throne Judgement.
Israel already has said Blessed Be The One Who Comes in The Name of The Lord: Hosanna when Jesus entered The Temple before the Crucifixion. The Religious leaders told Him to Rebuke them; instead. Yet, it will come to pass as written regarding the worshippers in The Temple while the gentiles are outside in war to trample The Holy City. The two witnesses will be there as God Shows Himself Holy among all of the nations of the goyim on earth. At that time, and some will beforehand, Israel will weep and mourn (Blessed are they that mourn) for The Messiah as written in The Prophets of God for they had killed and rejected God's plan, at first, for the redemption and fulfillment of the law to satisfy the Holy Commandment of God by Faith. My Spirit contends with all of The People only for 80 or so years during their life is written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Jerowhy...I take it that you don't see your future connected to Israel and that the Church is supreme? Actually you will not see Christ until such time as Israel cries out for His return.
By the way...you should work to simplify your post and bring them down to a level that the rest of us can understand. Frankly the way they are worded I find myself drifting away before finishing but I’m a little slow so maybe it’s just me.
Bob
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RE: Barack Obama's plan for Israel.. how does it effect... - 11/18/2008 2:05:36 PM
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jerowhy
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The river Euphrates is the last river among which the nations are planted along as trees as written in the Prophets of God. Assyria (Empire) is written about as a well watered tree planted along the tigris (tiger is) under which many nations (beasts of the field) and many birds (spirits and people) made their homes among for a while. Until God Decides certain things regarding sin. The present Empire is Europeanesqe or Romanesque; hence the name Euphrates. There were four riverheads in The Garden of Eden. Two of the rivers are before the flood along which God had planted many peoples nations and languages. The present rivers that remain after the flood are Tigris and Euphrates near Iraq or Babylon. The Kingdom is not of this world and The Prophets and Priests of God are not speaking about things that are worldly. They are showing us Spiritual things that speak to us concerning God. For God Is Spirit. Yet all things were made through and by and for The Word of God and The Spirit of Truth; and they are maintained and have their being by Him.
In the Millennium this will probably be fulfilled on earthly boundary terms, as well. Therefore, until the Coming of The Messiah these nations had already existed in Prophecy along the two rivers.
< Message edited by jerowhy -- 11/18/2008 5:11:11 PM >
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