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Besetting sin...??? - 10/13/2008 3:36:57 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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I am really hesitant to ask this here. I have heard all the 'stock" answers and I know people who seem to do a good job of living and overcoming. Then I know others who struggle. Some give up and some keep trying.
Have you ever had a besetting sin, something that just keeps coming back, something that seems so deeply rooted that it will never go away, something that if you ever give it an inch it will hook you like a fish and the hook has a barb on it that hooks deep into your jaw and pulls you around. Something that you know to not play with but somehow you do anyway.
I don't know if this is a question for those who are naturally self controlled, who have it in their nature to "just do it" or "just not do it". I know people like that and while I admire them I cannot relate and I don't think that they can relate to this kind of weakness of character.
Lately I have come to think that as long as we are in this body we are going to have to deal with whatever sin it is that is peculiar to us, and I am sure we each have some sin or temptation that is peculiar to us, by that I mean that someone else may never be tempted in this area but it is always at our elbow... always. In reading Paul, it seems to me that his peculiar sin was covetousness. I could be wrong but he seems to admit struggling with it.
I think my question is this... (if you can understand where I am coming from, if you don't understand then please don't try to help)...
...when one has tried and failed, not once or twice, but when it has been a lifelong thing that has never really gone away and you've never really had deliverance from it or if you did... at some point you fell into it, (or jumped into it), again... how do you keep hope that you will ever get lasting victory. How do you get up and wit han honest hopeful heart go again in faith when you've failed 1,000 times... when you know where you've been and you are so aware of your record of trying and failing. It always seems to just be a matter of how long before you fall.
I don't think that this should be this way. I pray... I read... I fail. I don't give up but I wonder sometimes if I will ever overcome and that troubles me because overcoming is, according to the Lord... a requirement.
What is your answer to overcoming indwelling sin? I've been reading John Owen of the matter and Thomas Watson, they both had great insight but I am having a hard time applying the knowledge.
Will you pray for me?
Thanks,
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/17/2008 1:15:18 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
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jbow,
I can relate to what you're saying. And I said the very same things, to myself, that you have expressed concerning, a 'besetting' sin. I had even reached a point of totally given up on ever having victory. But then I did have a victory...a total and complete victory for over 4 years. And then the temptation came back at "a more opportune time" about a year ago. And I have struggled with it again. Not to the degree that I had before, but still disappointingly short of that 4+ years of total victory.
I am not as disheartened as you have so honestly related in your post, but then I do have that victory to 'remember'. A memory that keeps me hopeful that I will once again be 'more than an overcomer' in that area of my life. Hopefully this testimony of 'success' as well as my history of 'failure' can encourage you.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/17/2008 2:58:19 PM
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steve7150
Posts: 215
Joined: 5/16/2005
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jbow, Everyone is different so what works for one may not work for you. But try to focus on what you have accomplished knowing none of us are perfect but the overcoming is in the presistence to keep moving ahead step by step even if you never are 100% victorious. After all that is why he died for us, right? And that's why Christ said to forgive 7X70 including forgiving ourselves.
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/18/2008 7:27:16 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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Thank you. I am not disheartened all the time, just sometimes. I keep going. It is just hard for me to understand sometimes that we have a new nature but still also have the old nature too. I will be so glad when this warfare is over. I realize that we cannot be improved and that we are incredibly wicked and that is why we must die, the flesh or old man or indwelling sin or whatever you call it... it has to be denied and it has to die. I realize that this is the reason we are told to "walk in the Spirit"... so that we will not fulfill these lusts... I just have not learned how to do it, in practice. He is teaching me though.
I found this, (link below), and I think it is good, so far. I've read about 3/4 of it. It makes sense that in order to have victory we must choose to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. As Christians we have the ability to walk in the Spirit. We are the only people who have both flesh and Spirit... it is just hard to grasp, the flesh come's so naturally... you know?
I particularly like this:
We are called the temples of the living God, the buildings in which God may be seen; and we are the earthen vessels whose treasure is the Christ within. We are containers and the containers are not called on to improve or change. How would changing the outside container improve the treasure within? It is our “earthen ness” as vessels that magnifies the glory of His work through us.
As human selves, our only true place in creation is in our unity with God, as the means by which He manifests Himself through us. Apart from our destined place in the unity, we can only be self-loving selves. Therefore it is useless and a waste of time for us to ask God to make us loving, or patient or pure, or free us from human reactions of hate or fear or worry or depression. It is asking an absurdity and impossibility. The human self can never change. The vessel can never be the living water it contains. The branch cannot be the vine.
(underline mine)
http://www.seegod.org/walk_in_the_spirit.htm
Thanks again...
Julien
< Message edited by jbow -- 10/18/2008 7:42:53 PM >
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/18/2008 7:28:47 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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Thanks Steve, I keep going, it's all one can do. Thank God that He is so merciful and full of grace.
I love that song... "The Lord is gracious and compassionate".
It is my favorite.
Julien
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/19/2008 9:59:56 PM
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dainsall
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My pastor kind of touched on this a bit this morning. It is like Paul's thorn that he begged God to remove from his side. God told him that His Grace was sufficient. We all need our humbler.
JME
Annette
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Prepare the Way of the Lord. Make God Known Where You Are.
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/20/2008 8:45:32 AM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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Jbow:
I think that if anyone says they do not have a sin that they struggle with, they are lying to themselves. To say something like that means that they are at the very least struggling with pride. The battle we face is a moment by moment battle, and no one can be strong in every moment. God sees our struggle, and He knows our struggle. I think that this is what matters most to Him, that we continue to fight, and not to give up. He is looking at the heart, not at the outward appearance.
I know that the root cause of my persistent sins is my own self image. Even as I study about being a new creature in Christ, and who that creature is in God's eyes, it is very difficult to believe it deep down when I continue to see my weaknesses and my tendency to sin. We must remember that this battle we face is a process that will take the rest of our lives, and even then we will not be perfected. It is not until we stand before Christ that we will be perfected comletely in heart, mind, body and soul. We must understand this, and keep our hearts and minds focused on God, even as we work to overcome these things. As I said above, it is about us continuing to fight, and not giving up on the fight, knowing that in the end, it is God Himself who will win the battle for us.
That really is the key; allowing God to do it for us. Even as you state in your 2nd post, it is a matter of walking in the Spirit. That is why I chose that verse for my signature. I know that of my own strength, I can do nothing. But in His strength I can do all things. I would suggest a book by Charles Stanley called "The Wonderful Spirit Filled Life". It helped me to enable the Holy Spirit in my life. Some scripture that I really focused on was John chapters 14 - 17; Romans chapters 7 & 8; several verses from both Galatians and Ephesians. I have since discovered that the verses in John can also be built on in his first epistle as well, focusing on abiding in Christ.
Another book that was a major help to me was "The Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Mayer. It focuses in on scriptures dealing with the mind, like having the mind of Christ and casting down any thought, idea, or vain imagination, or anything that raises itself up against the Spirit. It also deals with wilderness mentalities vs. spiritual mentality, or the mind of Christ. Oh, and there was another book called "Winning the War Within" also by Charles Stanley. All three books are loaded with scripture and insight into those scriptures that helped me to walk more and more with the Spirit.
One of the things that I've learned is that we are to be filled with the Spirit. We are baptized in the Spirit when we are saved, but there is a filling that is available to us on an ongoing basis. As I read each of the books above, and focused on the scriptures rather than my weaknesses, I would receive the filling of the Spirit. By focusing on our sin rather than on Christ, we are letting our flesh rule rather than the Spirit. Some of the most valuable scripture that I focused on was:
Not by your strength, not by your power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord.
We have not received a spirit again to fear, but a spirit of love and of power and of a sound mind.
If you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
My peace I give unto you; I do not give as the world gives.
There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of thet law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life beause of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him of HIm who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. THerefore bretheren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the Spirit of Bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry our "Abba, Father". The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, the heirs--heir of God and joint heirs with Chirst, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
< Message edited by bravjim -- 10/20/2008 9:50:19 AM >
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/20/2008 12:13:54 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 587
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: online
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jbow, Isn't this what we all want, to be overcomers in Christ? Not just in name but in actuality?
I think if we look at our Christian lives as a journey, a transformation process, then our outlook about ourselves can change. When I first became a Christian, I struggled with sins of the flesh. These ranged anywhere from sexual impurity, to vulgar language, to substance abuse. I must say that one of the ways Christ revealed the reality of His existance to me was in the ability to help me overcome sin.
But, these were but the icing of the cake. As time went on, I began to see that selfishness was my big struggle. Not only selfishness, but unbelief that Christ could deliver me from depression. I doubted many times that He could help me to overcome depression once and for all. Then, a little over two years ago, I prayed with a friend who really believed that God could help me to overcome this dreadful oppression. And the Lord at that moment gave me a special gift of faith to believe He could deliver me. I have not had a panic attack since then. I no longer dwell upon the negative aspects of my life.
But I think that overcoming sin is a process. We are to be changed into His likeness from one degree of glory to another. It is not instantaneous, but it is progressive.
May God grant you peace in this struggle and an overwhelming sense of His presence moment by moment. For when we are aware that our Lord Jesus is in our presence, we desire to please Him and not ourselves.
Heavendweller
_____________________________
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/24/2008 1:08:58 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
Thanks Steve, I keep going, it's all one can do. Thank God that He is so merciful and full of grace.
I love that song... "The Lord is gracious and compassionate".
It is my favorite.
Julien
I think there are moments in all of our lives that we beat ourselves up, we feel like we arent meeting God's standards, we feel like failures, but just know, you're not, God sees your struggle, He loves you and He is capable more than capable of delivering you from what you have got going on in your life. Believe me, I know or I wouldnt be saying this. I think He has to bring us to a point in our lives, that we see our weakness, and we see we are not capable, because if we were, how would He get the Glory? He wouldnt. So just know this Julien, Im praying for you, and Im believeing that God has delievered you from what your going through. Notice what I said, that He has! Claim the Victory through Christ, He wont fail you. Its when we find ourselves broken, that He will mold us into the person He wants us to be, and I believe thats beautiful. But please, dont beat yourself up, forgive yourself and keep putting one foot in front of the other.....we may stumble from time to time, but He will always pick us up. 
Speak words of faith over your life as well, dont speak words of defeat.
Im praying and believing
Misty
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/24/2008 1:43:53 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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Thank you...
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/24/2008 1:59:39 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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Thank you too...
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Besetting sin...??? - 10/24/2008 2:09:48 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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Thanks!!
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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