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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/27/2010 10:41:21 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Genesis 5:4
4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
Since lifetimes were so long, the siblings would've first married, then had children, and the children would've married cousins (or uncles/aunts).
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/27/2010 12:25:27 PM
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SimplyGrateful
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Wow. So, the boys would have eventually married their own sisters then. Hard to wrap your mind around God being fine with that. Even though there are many mentions of incest in the Bible, we think of it as being such a taboo issue nowadays. Hmmmm..Thanks.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/27/2010 12:28:50 PM
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Consecrated2God
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It wasn't taboo for quite some time. When the Law was given through Moses, God at that time commanded not to marry close relatives. Before that time it was permitted.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/27/2010 12:58:17 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyGrateful
Hello! I am new to the forum, and I do have a Bible question. I have discussed this one with my Christian friends, but nobody seems to be able to answer the question. God created Adam and Eve. Then, they had Caine and Able. Caine killed Able and then they had Seth. Right, so far? What I want to know is..Who did Caine and Seth marry??????????? I thought that I read somewhere that they may have married their cousins, but if that's true..where the heck did the cousins come from???  Thanks for helping!
And then there are those who think that the creation of male and female here;
(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(Gen 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Is a prior and separate event from this;
(Gen 2:5) And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
(Gen 2:6) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
(Gen 2:7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And that when Seth went into the land of Nod;
(Gen 4:16) And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
(Gen 4:17) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
That he went to the previously created group of people to find his wife.
But a lot of folks think a lot of things.
Thanks
RC
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/27/2010 10:37:03 PM
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SimplyGrateful
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Well, that sure jumbles it all up, hey RC? LOL! With my inquiring mind, I am constantly reminded that it's called "FAITH" for a reason!! Thanks!
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 2/28/2010 10:18:35 AM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyGrateful
Hello! I am new to the forum, and I do have a Bible question. I have discussed this one with my Christian friends, but nobody seems to be able to answer the question. God created Adam and Eve. Then, they had Caine and Able. Caine killed Able and then they had Seth. Right, so far? What I want to know is..Who did Caine and Seth marry??????????? I thought that I read somewhere that they may have married their cousins, but if that's true..where the heck did the cousins come from??? Thanks for helping!
And then there are those who think that the creation of male and female here;
(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(Gen 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Is a prior and separate event from this;
(Gen 2:5) And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
(Gen 2:6) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
(Gen 2:7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And that when Seth went into the land of Nod;
(Gen 4:16) And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
(Gen 4:17) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
That he went to the previously created group of people to find his wife.
But a lot of folks think a lot of things.
Thanks
RC
And a heretical belief like this would have huge theological implications.
1) Sin did not come through one man (a rejection of Paul's teaching in Romans)
2) We, who are decendants of Adam, have no reason to believe that we are created in the image of God. (Only the "pre-adamic" race, if it had existed, could make that claim)
Those are two of the reasons that such teaching lies outside the bounds of Christian orthodoxy.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/1/2010 12:45:51 AM
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gralan
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Genetically speaking, the prohibition on incest is the result of problems that occur with the genes of the offspring of such a union.
Genetically speaking there had not been time for "garbage" to build up in the genetic pool yet for incest to become the problem that it is today.
I also agree with the response that stated there could not have been some other genetic pool of "other" created people; that leads like the immaculate conception of Mary to an infinite regress which is logically impossible.
God can do anything that is logically possible. God cannot do what is impossible for God to do, such as to commit sin.
Logic has peculiar application in faith. God is not limited to our logic, but God is not by way of misunderstanding to be consider ill-logical.
In the obvious absence of information regarding the facts as queried upon, I say that either God did not want us to know yet or know ever.
We are not due an explanation of anything God does not choose to reveal.
IMO.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/2/2010 8:29:51 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyGrateful
Wow. So, the boys would have eventually married their own sisters then. Hard to wrap your mind around God being fine with that. Even though there are many mentions of incest in the Bible, we think of it as being such a taboo issue nowadays. Hmmmm..Thanks. Abraham was married to Sarah - his half sister. their son Isaac married Rebbeca, daughter of Laban, who was either another sibling or cousin of Abe and Sarah.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/2/2010 5:43:14 PM
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EsonTheSearcher
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Let me straighten one issue out about Cain: for some reason people read these verses:
(Gen 4:16) And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
(Gen 4:17) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Right off the bat these would seem to be fairly straightfoward:
(1) Cain left Eden, went to the east into a place called Nod.
(2) He had a son and built a city named after him.
But that is not the way some people read them:
(1) Cain left Eden, went to the east into a place called Nod.
(2) He found a wife there and got married and had a son, etc.,
I don't know where (2) comes from...no where in the verse is it said that the woman was already there. The verse just states that Cain's son was born there..that's it.
As already mentioned, Cain had to marry a sister. He had no other choice. Logically, the human had to start somewhere. The Bible teaches that Adam and Eve were the first the two humans. It follows then that the children had to intermarry...at least for a few generations. As pointed out already, Adam lived 800 years and had even more children than the three mentioned. The ban on incest does not appear until the Mosaic Law centuries later.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 1:58:38 AM
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GREATHIWAY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
It wasn't taboo for quite some time. When the Law was given through Moses, God at that time commanded not to marry close relatives. Before that time it was permitted.
How can this be true if YHWH an objective source or morality, If insecst and the other commands are right there were always right. Did YHWH punish Adam and eve even before they had knowlage of good and evil.
At best it Seems YHWH can change his mind about if this act is wrong or not.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 7:58:34 AM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GREATHIWAY
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
It wasn't taboo for quite some time. When the Law was given through Moses, God at that time commanded not to marry close relatives. Before that time it was permitted.
How can this be true if YHWH an objective source or morality, If insecst and the other commands are right there were always right. Did YHWH punish Adam and eve even before they had knowlage of good and evil.
At best it Seems YHWH can change his mind about if this act is wrong or not.
There are many commands that God gave only to a specific group of people at a specific time in history. These commands were given by God because they were what his people needed at that time in history. They have changed because we changed, not because God has changed (he doesn't change).
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 8:25:14 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Yep, it was given for our good, not because the practice itself was abhorrent.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 12:06:12 PM
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GREATHIWAY
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Well I didnt expect I would see two christians say insecst wasnt immoral.
I actually think there are less problematic apologetics. Since its does not actually say that cain married his sister (an oversight of some note)
You are just assuming ad hoc that insest was occuring, Also there are issues of weakening genetics with only two sources of genes. (it would quickly render subsequent generations infertial, a problem)
Why couldnt YWHW simply have made other people after adam and eve, or given what we know about our evolution ; That there was never a first man or women, And that adam and eve's story was merely a metaphoricalical , maybe there were already other proto-humans but they didnt have souls And this story was just about giving the first humans the breath of life.
There is even pseudepigraphal books of the OT where adam was married to a women named lillith before Eve.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 12:08:57 PM
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Consecrated2God
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There are plenty of examples of close relatives marrying in the Bible before God gave the law forbidding the practice. I prefer to believe what the Bible says.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 12:14:58 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GREATHIWAY
Well I didnt expect I would see two christians say insecst wasnt immoral.
I actually think there are less problematic apologetics. Since its does not actually say that cain married his sister (an oversight of some note)
You are just assuming ad hoc that insest was occuring, Also there are issues of weakening genetics with only two sources of genes. (it would quickly render subsequent generations infertial, a problem)
Why couldnt YWHW simply have made other people after adam and eve, or given what we know about our evolution ; That there was never a first man or women, And that adam and eve's story was merely a metaphoricalical , maybe there were already other proto-humans but they didnt have souls And this story was just about giving the first humans the breath of life.
There is even pseudepigraphal books of the OT where adam was married to a women named lillith before Eve.
Because such a belief would contradict the teaching of Paul in Romans, and because (as Consecrated said) we have examples in Scripture where such marriages took place with God's blessing.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 12:57:34 PM
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GREATHIWAY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
There are plenty of examples of close relatives marrying in the Bible before God gave the law forbidding the practice. I prefer to believe what the Bible says.
quote:
There are plenty of examples of close relatives marrying in the Bible before God gave the law forbidding the practice. I prefer to believe what the Bible says.
Thats fine, But in this situation Every person must have been doing it and is was not mentioned in scripture. And like I said How could such a small genepool not produce infertial offspring.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 1:10:03 PM
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GREATHIWAY
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quote:
Because such a belief would contradict the teaching of Paul in Romans
Not sure what you mean, What belief would contradict pauls teachings?
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/3/2010 9:02:29 PM
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EsonTheSearcher
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Yeah...nothing in the Creation contradicts Paul. He even references Adam and Eve both/. Even Jesus Himself quotes part of Gensis...He certainly believed the story was correct in every detail. You will need to go wayyyyy out on a limb to say otherwise. And in this case the limb will break.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/4/2010 10:23:31 AM
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ta_mosquito
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quote:
And like I said How could such a small genepool not produce infertial offspring.
If there are no genetic mutations, there will be no infertile offspring.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/4/2010 10:39:06 AM
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benelchi
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GREATHIWAY
quote:
Because such a belief would contradict the teaching of Paul in Romans
Not sure what you mean, What belief would contradict pauls teachings?
quote:
ORIGINAL: EsonTheSearcher
Yeah...nothing in the Creation contradicts Paul. He even references Adam and Eve both/. Even Jesus Himself quotes part of Gensis...He certainly believed the story was correct in every detail. You will need to go wayyyyy out on a limb to say otherwise. And in this case the limb will break.
However, the idea that there were other people created that ARE NOT MENTIONED in the creation account does contradict Paul; he argued that sin came only through Adam and he argued that ALL have sinned. That leaves little room for another group of unmentioned people because if this other unmentioned group did exist then either he was wrong about sin coming only through Adam or he was wrong in his declaration that all have sinned.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/4/2010 6:54:39 PM
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GREATHIWAY
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"That leaves little room for another group of unmentioned people because if this other unmentioned group did exist then either he was wrong about sin coming only through Adam or he was wrong in his declaration that all have sinned. "
I would argue that Adams's sin through eve lead to the fall of the entire world , Isnt it said the fall changed that nature of even other animals that had no direct relationship to adam aswell.
"If there are no genetic mutations, there will be no infertile offspring."
Im sorry its the other way around, There would need to be super-evolution and lots of mutations (and large percent of them beneficial) each generation inorder to have enough diversity in genes.
Also if there arent even mutations , why do we have any diversity in our genes today.
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/4/2010 8:19:17 PM
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ta_mosquito
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quote:
Im sorry its the other way around, There would need to be super-evolution and lots of mutations (and large percent of them beneficial) each generation inorder to have enough diversity in genes.
Also if there arent even mutations , why do we have any diversity in our genes today.
There are such things as genetic mutations, yes. Which is why we have the diversity we do.
What I was trying to say was that it's mutations (harmful ones) that cause infertility between close family members. The closer the relation, the more chance the two people have the same harmful genetic mutation, increasing the chance of deformations, infertility, etc. in the offspring.
Since Adam and Eve's genes were not harmfully mutated, their offspring didn't have those genetic abnormalities causing infertility, etc. in the offspring. Hence they could marry and have children without creating monsters. 
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RE: I have a "begatting" question! - 3/4/2010 8:22:12 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Hence they could marry and have children without creating monsters.
Hugh Jackman isn't a monster!
...
Oh, different kind of mutation. Sorry.
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