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Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/18/2008 9:31:15 PM
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aslouie
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Upon election night, or at least the subsequent evening thereof, I was reminded on FNC's Special Report With Brit Hume, there's a surprising statistic/exit polls saying that people who have a yearly income of around 200K or above, tend to vote for Obama. And upon hearing that, I've been ruminating this almost, counter-intuitive perception that if you're a wealthy businessman/industrialist, maybe there's more wealth potential to vote for a tax-hiking liberal/leftist--like much in the same, dynamic way Mel Brooks' The Producers, summarized the theory that you can make more money with a flop than with a hit (if you can raise the stakes high enough, via hype), except here, with the tumultuous stock market, I'm surmising if that's what big corporate bosses are aiming for: have a slower job market, so as to see their price of stock rise... or perhaps let it fall, so as to take the investors' money and run!*
*unless of course, there's a possible federal bailout in mind--just ask the average AIG executive!   
This almost reminds me of that ironic truth as to why the late economist, Milton Friedman, chose to reside in San Francisco: there's no competition!
It's almost provocative to think that the big businesses that backed Obama and the DNC, left-wing groups don't fulfill the capitalist label--SINCE capitalism automatically implies a sense of free market, competition, which in the case of the liberal-backing corporations/well-established rich bigwigs, that's probably the best way to eliminate business competitors!
...and I haven't gone into the other tangents of rich social liberals (i.e. the gay consumer market), the biblical concept of Deuteronomy 8 (something to do with the rich forgetting who really made their wealth a reality, i.e. Warren Buffet, a.k.a. Obama's potential Treasury Secretary!), a recent university study by a SUNY professor (later tested on a microcosmic level, a la 20/20's John Stossel!), or that Joel Kotkin op-ed I oft-referred to regarding the "liberal gentry!"
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/18/2008 10:09:26 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: aslouie
Upon election night, or at least the subsequent evening thereof, I was reminded on FNC's Special Report With Brit Hume, there's a surprising statistic/exit polls saying that people who have a yearly income of around 200K or above, tend to vote for Obama. And upon hearing that, I've been ruminating this almost, counter-intuitive perception that if you're a wealthy businessman/industrialist, maybe there's more wealth potential to vote for a tax-hiking liberal/leftist--like much in the same, dynamic way Mel Brooks' The Producers, summarized the theory that you can make more money with a flop than with a hit (if you can raise the stakes high enough, via hype), except here, with the tumultuous stock market, I'm surmising if that's what big corporate bosses are aiming for: have a slower job market, so as to see their price of stock rise... or perhaps let it fall, so as to take the investors' money and run!*
*unless of course, there's a possible federal bailout in mind--just ask the average AIG executive!
This almost reminds me of that ironic truth as to why the late economist, Milton Friedman, chose to reside in San Francisco: there's no competition!
It's almost provocative to think that the big businesses that backed Obama and the DNC, left-wing groups don't fulfill the capitalist label--SINCE capitalism automatically implies a sense of free market, competition, which in the case of the liberal-backing corporations/well-established rich bigwigs, that's probably the best way to eliminate business competitors!
...and I haven't gone into the other tangents of rich social liberals (i.e. the gay consumer market), the biblical concept of Deuteronomy 8 (something to do with the rich forgetting who really made their wealth a reality, i.e. Warren Buffet, a.k.a. Obama's potential Treasury Secretary!), a recent university study by a SUNY professor (later tested on a microcosmic level, a la 20/20's John Stossel!), or that Joel Kotkin op-ed I oft-referred to regarding the "liberal gentry!"
Relatively speaking, if you're talking about "rich people," $200K/yr is still on the low end. While that salary will put you well into "comfortable" territory, it's still a far cry from "rich," particularly if you live in a large urban area, where rent on a modest apartment can cost several thousand dollars a month. The "wealthy businessmen/industrialists" you're talking about have another zero or two on their tax returns.
What this is really a measure of is how likely successful, well-educated professionals are to vote for Obama. I don't think it's been any secret that folks with higher levels of education tend to lean liberal.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/18/2008 11:41:25 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
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I know the reason why Obama did so well with younger voters. His constant emphasis on education as one of his top priorities really struck a cord with young voters. He stressed a need to make college education affordable to all Americans and give a $4000 credit to those students who volunteer in some type of community service programs (eg: Peace Corps). This may or may not have factored in to the folks with higher education favoring Obama this year. In respect to rich people making over $200,000, I really don't have any answer as to why tended to vote for Obama.
Now in terms of only liberals being lucratively rich, I would disagree with that. I know many conservatives who are rich as well. Remember that one can be fiscally liberal but socially conservative. It all depends on how you define liberal. I think Obama is both fiscally and socially liberal. Whereas I consider myself to be fiscally liberal but socially conservative.
< Message edited by Johnny_ -- 11/19/2008 1:08:32 AM >
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 12:35:01 AM
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aslouie
Posts: 713
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: aslouie
Upon election night, or at least the subsequent evening thereof, I was reminded on FNC's Special Report With Brit Hume, there's a surprising statistic/exit polls saying that people who have a yearly income of around 200K or above, tend to vote for Obama. And upon hearing that, I've been ruminating this almost, counter-intuitive perception that if you're a wealthy businessman/industrialist, maybe there's more wealth potential to vote for a tax-hiking liberal/leftist--like much in the same, dynamic way Mel Brooks' The Producers, summarized the theory that you can make more money with a flop than with a hit (if you can raise the stakes high enough, via hype), except here, with the tumultuous stock market, I'm surmising if that's what big corporate bosses are aiming for: have a slower job market, so as to see their price of stock rise... or perhaps let it fall, so as to take the investors' money and run!*
*unless of course, there's a possible federal bailout in mind--just ask the average AIG executive!
This almost reminds me of that ironic truth as to why the late economist, Milton Friedman, chose to reside in San Francisco: there's no competition!
It's almost provocative to think that the big businesses that backed Obama and the DNC, left-wing groups don't fulfill the capitalist label--SINCE capitalism automatically implies a sense of free market, competition, which in the case of the liberal-backing corporations/well-established rich bigwigs, that's probably the best way to eliminate business competitors!
...and I haven't gone into the other tangents of rich social liberals (i.e. the gay consumer market), the biblical concept of Deuteronomy 8 (something to do with the rich forgetting who really made their wealth a reality, i.e. Warren Buffet, a.k.a. Obama's potential Treasury Secretary!), a recent university study by a SUNY professor (later tested on a microcosmic level, a la 20/20's John Stossel!), or that Joel Kotkin op-ed I oft-referred to regarding the "liberal gentry!"
Relatively speaking, if you're talking about "rich people," $200K/yr is still on the low end. While that salary will put you well into "comfortable" territory, it's still a far cry from "rich," particularly if you live in a large urban area, where rent on a modest apartment can cost several thousand dollars a month. The "wealthy businessmen/industrialists" you're talking about have another zero or two on their tax returns.
What this is really a measure of is how likely successful, well-educated professionals are to vote for Obama. I don't think it's been any secret that folks with higher levels of education tend to lean liberal.
-Dan.
Interesting to note that you described the college-level, quite-often urban professionals that lean left-of-center. In a past OP or two, considering the "real party of the rich," "latte liberalism," I've noticed the strange, almost ironically-aristocratic aura behind these college-educated white collar professionals, taking on a sort of "tax snobbish" approach to dealing with socio-economic woes... almost as if they're implying that if you're not as "progressive" as they are, you're somehow morally inferior (to sort of use very blunt language), kind of like when I was in my high school literature class, and our teacher recalled a time in British, post-Restoration (?) history where the rich will tossed their spare change to the underclass, perhaps to display their "noble" reasons of why they are at the top. I guess that's also the reason why I find myself rolling my eyes in cynical disgust, when I read some stateside op-eds, boasting how the Obama victory spells the doom of the "myth of the everyman" (read: blue collar, sometimes even rural), in favor of the college-educated, middle-upper class liberals, which I found to be hypocritical, since aren't these the same college-educated liberals that are supposed to help out the little guys, a.k.a. the blue collar, sometimes rural lunch pail Joe's*--given how supporting higher taxes can seriously damage folks of the lower half of the tax bracket (since working hard to fulfill immediate IRS concerns can take a lot of time away from family time--AND time for personal reflection... the same kind of deep thinking liberal intellectuals always deride lower class, oft-small town folks of!)?
*I think you know whom I'm referring to! 
But then again, I'm thinking that the struggling little guys'/working class are now ideologically- synonymous with small town racists, ignoramuses, etc... a la Obama's bittergate gaffes! I suppose that's why in a past, L.A. Weekly article on Michael Moore, he is said to have more in line with the college-educated youths than say, the very blue collar types Moore supposedly represents in "Roger & Me," which I find very ironic... not to mention even more tragically ironic when onetime blue collar union fans of Moore are disillusioned by his increasingly Hollywood, sold-out decline into insular irrelevance!
...and I haven't gone off tangent on Moore's REAL socio-economic background! 
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 12:43:27 AM
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aslouie
Posts: 713
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I know the reason why this Obama did so well with younger voters. His constant emphasis on education as one of his top priorities really struck a cord with young voters. He stressed a need to make college education affordable to all Americans and give a $4000 credit to those students who volunteer in some type of community service programs (eg: Peace Corps). This may or may not have factored in to the folks with higher education favoring Obama this year. In respect to rich people making over $200,000, I really don't have any answer as to why tended to vote for Obama.
Now in terms of only liberals being lucratively rich, I would disagree with that. I know many conservatives who are rich as well. Remember that one can be fiscally liberal but socially conservative. It all depends on how you define liberal. I think Obama is both fiscally and socially liberal. Whereas I consider myself to be fiscally liberal but socially conservative.
I guess regarding liberals being rich, I guess I would/will have to direct a few immediate examples, like in the Golden State's tech firms, i.e. Silicon Valley, that have catered to the donor-rich needs/wants of LGBT customers. Other notable examples includes GE chairman Jeffrey Immelt, who's been blamed/alleged of bringing down the company's stock (perhaps for doing business with Iran, albeit via European middle men companies over medical technology... though on a personal opinionated note, I'm wondering how much of the medical tech General Electric is sharing with Ahmadinejad's Iran is intended for healing use: hint, possible WMD projects?).
But to streamline the whole OP into perspective, if there's more college-educated, urban-centered professionals, geared towards not only liberal politicians, but likewise in the same liberal stronghold/urban centers where there's greater economic opportunity = bigger chances for opening deep-pocketed markets, since if my observational skills are correct, big cities tend to attract more big money investment/business than say, a small town (i.e. in the Midwest or Bible Belt South).
It's more than enough to controversially surmise that perhaps by having a Wall Street meltdown, one can screw the rural/blue collar/ everyman because they're a just a bunch of Bible-and-gun-clinging "rednecks! (to so quote both Obama--AND John Murtha!)"
In short, a failing Wall Street is probably best way to finishing off Main Street (redneck) America... if you're George Soros!
Maybe I should of posted an alternative thread title called, "It pays (big time) to be liberal?"
< Message edited by aslouie -- 11/19/2008 12:56:16 AM >
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 3:18:09 AM
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womaninchrist
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There are a LOT of statistics that can be used to kind of predict/guess how a person might vote based on certain characteristics like income, wealth, education, place of residence, type of residence, type of job, and all sorts of other things. From what I remember, below a certain income level people are more likely to vote Democratic/liberal then it goes more Republican/conservative with variations based largely on education and location and it goes back to Democratic/liberal with the upper-middle to lower-upper class (like the incomes mentioned in the OP), but the truly upper class are more likely to vote Republican. But I'm doing this from memories based on a BA in Poli. Sci. finished in 1992 so those figures might be a little off or a bit old.
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 7:51:18 AM
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SonInMe1
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The "well" educated tend to be influenced by college liberal professors...hence the liberal bent.
If many rich people vote for liberals its because their liberal professors taught them guilt. Its because the liberal leadership taught them guilt.
I think there is a not so sublte insult when someone says the more educated you are the more liberal you vote. There are many intellectually competent conservatives. Education does not make you liberal...liberal colleges influence those toward liberalism. It would seem since the majority of college campuses are liberal, the true free thinkers are the college educated conservatives.
I know this is a shock, but this is the first truly liberal president we have elected...I think as liberal is defined today...ever. So don't get too giddy and think a majority of anyone now votes liberal.
Young people tend to be liberal because they are facing the real world for the first time away from mom and dad and its a little intimidating and they want the protection from the big bad world they just left at mom's and dad's. Place this mindset in a liberal college enviroment and wallah...liberals.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 9:00:46 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1425
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
The "well" educated tend to be influenced by college liberal professors...hence the liberal bent.
Young people tend to be liberal because they are facing the real world for the first time away from mom and dad and its a little intimidating and they want the protection from the big bad world they just left at mom's and dad's. Place this mindset in a liberal college enviroment and wallah...liberals.
That's what I hear about. "Liberal" college professors and such. Thank goodness I chose the "right" university to attend....especially since I came from an extremely liberal, union-household.....as a result of attending there, I came out as a "conservative", free enterprise/capitalism kind of guy....
My school? Northwood University. It's a fairly small, private, business-oriented university in Michigan.
Here's the school's mission/core values statement and "purpose"......as you can see, there's NO room for liberalism there!
Hillsdale College, in Hillsdale, Michigan is another with similar values.
The mission of Northwood University is to develop the future leaders of a global, free-enterprise society.
Core Values Statement
We believe in:
* the advantages of an entrepreneurial, free-enterprise society,
* individual freedom and individual responsibility,
* functioning from a foundation of ethics and integrity, and
* promoting and leveraging the global, diverse and multi-cultural nature of enterprise.
Core Purpose Statement
The core purpose is to develop leaders, managers, and entrepreneurs with the skills and character to drive personal, organizational and societal success.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 1:04:43 PM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The "well" educated tend to be influenced by college liberal professors...hence the liberal bent.
I think however, that the idea that colleges and universities are places where there is a constant stream of liberal opinion is a bit overstated. While, there are no doubt many liberal professors, the ones that do the most spouting off in class tend to be concentrated in a few areas, such as womens studies, sociology, history, etc.
There are many liberals who for the most part teach their courses and keep their opinions quiet. Also, if you look in business schools at most universities, you tend to see a lot of conservatives. Although they are often the non churchgoing prochoice variety.
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 5:08:15 PM
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rcjames
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Liberal = Lucrative?
Well as far as I am concerned
Liberal = Laxitive
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 8:07:30 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 267
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Young people tend to be liberal because they are facing the real world for the first time away from mom and dad and its a little intimidating and they want the protection from the big bad world they just left at mom's and dad's. Place this mindset in a liberal college enviroment and wallah...liberals.
I think it was Winston Churchill who said, "A young man who is not liberal has no heart. An old man who is not liberal has no brain". So, where does that leave middle age folk?
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 9:03:53 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The "well" educated tend to be influenced by college liberal professors...hence the liberal bent.
If many rich people vote for liberals its because their liberal professors taught them guilt. Its because the liberal leadership taught them guilt.
I think there is a not so sublte insult when someone says the more educated you are the more liberal you vote.
FWIW, I didn't mean to imply that the more educated you are, the more liberal you are. I meant to describe the average trend, not any one specific individual.
That said, that idea is no less insulting the the point you, TMeeks, and others have made about liberals being that way, because they were taught by liberal professors. One could probably argue that for certain humanities programs, but there are quite a number of liberally (or at least centrally) minded scientists and engineers out there who, for the most part, escape such "indoctrination."
It's rather simplistic to assume that college-educated people are liberals because that's all they were taught in school. One of the primary goals of college is teaching and inspiring people to think for themselves.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 10:03:15 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 926
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Young people tend to be liberal because they are facing the real world for the first time away from mom and dad and its a little intimidating and they want the protection from the big bad world they just left at mom's and dad's. Place this mindset in a liberal college enviroment and wallah...liberals.
I think it was Winston Churchill who said, "A young man who is not liberal has no heart. An old man who is not liberal has no brain". So, where does that leave middle age folk?
 uh, I think you might have confused the quote from Churchill a little... Direct from thinkexist quotes...here's the correct version
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Sir Winston Churchhill
I really like and agree with a lot of Churchill's quotes ....here a few more that lend themselves to this thread.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."
"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law."
Most people stumble over the truth, now and then, but they usually manage to pick themselves up and go on, anyway.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/19/2008 11:02:43 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
One of the primary goals of college is teaching and inspiring people to think for themselves.
I agree with you 100%. Coming out of a 4 year University, the greatest attributes of my college experience was learning to think for myself. In other words, instead of jumping on the bandwagon and just going with the flow, college professors inspire you to be creative and urge you to challenge ideologies that you don't agree with. Forget about what you've heard or what you've seen on Television, college professors want you to do your own research and most importantly, they want to know what YOU think. Believe it or not, there are actually many positive things we can learn from liberals, conservatives, moderates, and independents.
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RE: Liberal = Lucrative? - 11/20/2008 1:26:39 AM
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aslouie
Posts: 713
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA.
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I guess in addition to this thread, I was also reminded of that recent, green economy initiative by one Texas oil baron, T. Boons Pickens. It was voted down by a significant margin here at (surprisingly!) the golden state during the recent Nov. 8 elections. But the part that has me thinking is that in the quest to invest in a OPEC-free, ecologically-friendly economic infrastructure, I've been thinking if this very chic, and quite often synonymously-liberal industry is not without some questionable means to this technically (if not theoretically) noble end. Given President-elect Obama's comments on bankrupting the coal industry, I can't help but think does this includes clean-burning coal? 'Cause if it's the case, I'm thinking not only is Obama--and especially his base of support--are shooting themselves in the foot (i.e. limiting some pragmatic options/steps to making a green economy workable), but likewise with doing a (possibly?) dishonorable favor by doing this for those who's heavily invested in strictly wind farms, biofuels. Not to say I have anything against the latter two, but I can't help but think there might be some dirty politicking on the business end to eliminate other viable/long-term practical options of an eco-friendly economy.
This almost reminds me of that other liberal-lucrative venture called stem cell research vs. embryonic stem cell research...*
*i.e. Planned Parenthood having access to "raw materials," in exchange for federal/private money--over non-embryonic stem cell research alternatives? 'Sounds like a cross between Ghost In The Shell: SAC and Men Behind The Sun!
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
--Albert Einstein
That's hot.
--Paris Hilton
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