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RE: "The Shack" - 7/1/2009 8:24:55 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 913
Joined: 6/14/2009
From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
Liveloved - Here's a link for starters: http://www.leadingtheway.org/site/PageServer?pagename=sto_TheShack_13heresies
The fact that you are sending me to a link is a part of the problem. How much of what we think, the conclusions we form, or reactions we have are because of what we've heard, what we've been told about something? Rather than arrived at by listening and seeking to understand?
I went back to page one of this thread and began reading again. And the first posts that were critical of this book were based on "everything I've heard about it", "what I've read about it", and "I haven't even read it but".
Have we arrived at our conclusions based on all the things others have told us? What they think? And after hearing all this, reading all the commentary, listening to the biased opinions, can we then read something with an open mind?
Anyway, I was just hoping that you would share some of the heresies and blasphemies you had observed.
Did you read the link with an open mind?
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/1/2009 10:08:03 PM
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quietly50
Posts: 106
Joined: 12/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
< Message edited by quietly50 -- 7/2/2009 8:27:56 AM >
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/2/2009 5:04:15 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2108
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Go back and read what I said and perhaps you'll see that's not what I was saying at all. 
and if you read what i said and underlined is that thanks to very respected and learned scholars who have laid out such excellent cases against the book, then there is little reason for us to subject ourselves to such damaging doctrine. i can read an online review of a movie and read it is filled with sex scenes, raunchy jokes, and 150 swear words and determine it's not a movie for myself. even more, i can read that review and not show it to my child - i don't need to screen it myself.
As I said earlier, we can learn much from others. But we can also be mislead.
Our town did a community play the past two weekends. We had some friends over last Saturday who had gone on Friday night. They did not have much good to say about it. So the next Friday night I went. My husband could have come but chose not to due to their review. I thought the play excellent and my husband missed out partially because of their comments.
Bad language and vulgar content are one thing---and usually pretty easy to spot. I often trust others with those kinds of judgments as well.
If you trust the sources of the comments, then that's for you to decide. As I have said, I don't agree with all that Young says. But he also deals with some topics such as relationship, authority, and submission that we in the church need to grapple with. I'm not looking to Young to establish doctrine. But he has opened up some opportunities for needed conversation in the church that haven't been dealt with in the past.
I look at is as an opportunity. I've encountered bad doctrine in every church I've ever been in. . . and from most people as well. But I don't stay away from either. That's me.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/2/2009 7:39:59 PM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 46
Joined: 6/17/2009
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quote:
But he also deals with some topics such as relationship, authority, and submission that we in the church need to grapple with. I'm not looking to Young to establish doctrine. But he has opened up some opportunities for needed conversation in the church that haven't been dealt with in the past.
Hmmm.....I hadn't noticed a need in the church that I go to. If there were, though, I'm sure that we would use the Bible and teach it scripturally instead of making up some ridiculous theory that misleads so many people.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/2/2009 8:48:29 PM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 913
Joined: 6/14/2009
From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Go back and read what I said and perhaps you'll see that's not what I was saying at all.
and if you read what i said and underlined is that thanks to very respected and learned scholars who have laid out such excellent cases against the book, then there is little reason for us to subject ourselves to such damaging doctrine. i can read an online review of a movie and read it is filled with sex scenes, raunchy jokes, and 150 swear words and determine it's not a movie for myself. even more, i can read that review and not show it to my child - i don't need to screen it myself.
Well said.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/4/2009 12:11:55 PM
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a.face.in.the.crowd
Posts: 55
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
Defining the Trinity is not an easy task, one that I am not willing to take on (I don't have any seminary education either). And I'm sure if I attempted to that others would come in and tell me I was doing it wrong.
So, does anyone know if there is an ongoing thread on the Trinity that may help explain it to someone who is genuinely seeking to know/understand? If there is, could you please link it to this thread so as not to take it off topic?
Perhaps that's why The Shack is so popular. I believe there are lots of people who want to know and understand the Truth.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/4/2009 5:42:34 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2108
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wonder_Woman
quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
Defining the Trinity is not an easy task, one that I am not willing to take on (I don't have any seminary education either). And I'm sure if I attempted to that others would come in and tell me I was doing it wrong.
So, does anyone know if there is an ongoing thread on the Trinity that may help explain it to someone who is genuinely seeking to know/understand? If there is, could you please link it to this thread so as not to take it off topic?
Perhaps that's why The Shack is so popular. I believe there are lots of people who want to know and understand the Truth.
Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead. He will teach you. God's word is the revelation of all He is so spend quality time with Him.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/5/2009 2:51:00 AM
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quietly50
Posts: 106
Joined: 12/14/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: Wonder_Woman
quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
Defining the Trinity is not an easy task, one that I am not willing to take on (I don't have any seminary education either). And I'm sure if I attempted to that others would come in and tell me I was doing it wrong.
So, does anyone know if there is an ongoing thread on the Trinity that may help explain it to someone who is genuinely seeking to know/understand? If there is, could you please link it to this thread so as not to take it off topic?
Perhaps that's why The Shack is so popular. I believe there are lots of people who want to know and understand the Truth.
Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead. He will teach you. God's word is the revelation of all He is so spend quality time with Him.
Then why go to church if spending time with Jesus is all we need?
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/5/2009 10:47:37 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 3171
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
The Trinity is God the FATHER, God the SON (Jesus), and God the HOLY SPIRIT.
It is not God the large Jamaican Black Woman named Papa, God the Son as a Jewish carpenter is the closest he got to anything right, or God the spiritist woman from East Asia.
That's how one defines Trinity. That and the fact that all are one. Three in One. Father, Son, and Spirit. God is always referred to as He in the Bible. Never any indication of a feminine gender, though we do know that God is neither male nor female, I believe that HE must be referred to as HE.
_____________________________
God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/5/2009 11:13:37 AM
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Reform_Dave
Posts: 913
Joined: 6/14/2009
From: Where the mountains touch the sky.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: Wonder_Woman
quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
Defining the Trinity is not an easy task, one that I am not willing to take on (I don't have any seminary education either). And I'm sure if I attempted to that others would come in and tell me I was doing it wrong.
So, does anyone know if there is an ongoing thread on the Trinity that may help explain it to someone who is genuinely seeking to know/understand? If there is, could you please link it to this thread so as not to take it off topic?
Perhaps that's why The Shack is so popular. I believe there are lots of people who want to know and understand the Truth.
Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead. He will teach you. God's word is the revelation of all He is so spend quality time with Him.
Then why go to church if spending time with Jesus is all we need?
Because we are told not to neglect assembling together, Hebrews 10:25. Besides Liveloved didnt say spending time with Jesus was all we need, he said " Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead."
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/5/2009 5:00:33 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2108
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Reform_Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: Wonder_Woman
quote:
ORIGINAL: quietly50
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Problems with the Shack: The view of the Trinity that is presented is very problematic, for one.
What are the problems? I don't have any seminary education or anything like that so I don't know exactly how you define Trinity. Thanks.
Defining the Trinity is not an easy task, one that I am not willing to take on (I don't have any seminary education either). And I'm sure if I attempted to that others would come in and tell me I was doing it wrong.
So, does anyone know if there is an ongoing thread on the Trinity that may help explain it to someone who is genuinely seeking to know/understand? If there is, could you please link it to this thread so as not to take it off topic?
Perhaps that's why The Shack is so popular. I believe there are lots of people who want to know and understand the Truth.
Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead. He will teach you. God's word is the revelation of all He is so spend quality time with Him.
Then why go to church if spending time with Jesus is all we need?
Because we are told not to neglect assembling together, Hebrews 10:25. Besides Liveloved didnt say spending time with Jesus was all we need, he said " Just spend time with Jesus in His word and you will know all you need to know about the Godhead."
Thanks, Reform_Dave.
Yes, I believe in fellowship as well, quietly50. I meet with believers around God's word each Wednesday night and again each Sunday morning. Iron sharpens iron and I need the sharpening and honing other believers bring about in me.
Your desire to understand the trinity is admirable and I am certainly not discouraging further study. But you don't need a seminary degree to know God. Look at the men and women in scripture who knew God. . . Paul came the closest to having a degree and what did he say about it? He considered it dung (all of his accomplishments) compared to knowing Christ. (Read Philippians 3 for his account of this.)
It's all about Jesus. Get to know Jesus. And, yes, the scriptures are the revelation of our wonderful God in three persons. Spend time with Jesus in His word, ask questions, be a good listener, and He will reveal Himself to you.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/5/2009 5:56:48 PM
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mamajennleigh
Posts: 1035
Joined: 12/6/2007
From: Fuquay-Varina, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Yes, I believe in fellowship as well, quietly50. I meet with believers around God's word each Wednesday night and again each Sunday morning. Iron sharpens iron and I need the sharpening and honing other believers bring about in me.
Your desire to understand the trinity is admirable and I am certainly not discouraging further study. But you don't need a seminary degree to know God. Look at the men and women in scripture who knew God. . . Paul came the closest to having a degree and what did he say about it? He considered it dung (all of his accomplishments) compared to knowing Christ. (Read Philippians 3 for his account of this.)
It's all about Jesus. Get to know Jesus. And, yes, the scriptures are the revelation of our wonderful God in three persons. Spend time with Jesus in His word, ask questions, be a good listener, and He will reveal Himself to you.
I couldn't have said this better myself.
_____________________________
We may not have arrived, but Praise the Lord we've set sail!
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 12:17:21 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 7122
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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I agree that besides the theological stuff it just wasn't that good of a book.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 12:25:09 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4251
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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Totally. Terribly written.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 2:56:06 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 735
Joined: 7/13/2007
From: The South
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quote:
Yet God uses the foolish things to shame the wise.
Sometimes maybe, but not always. 
The book *might* make some good, valid points but I'll have to read further to find out. Even if it does, I think there are other authors who have done it in a less "foolish" way. 
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 4:45:31 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4251
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Yet God uses the foolish things to shame the wise.
Or a lot of people are so bible illiterate they can't tell what's right and what isn't.
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 4:59:41 PM
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Re.Focusing
Posts: 2886
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Or a lot of people are so bible illiterate they can't tell what's right and what isn't.
I think this is the bottom line ........
It's better to encourage them to read the Bible (and I always suggest starting with the NT) rather than putting them down for lacking intellect or for picking a silly little book to read.
_____________________________
. . . when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 6:30:00 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 268
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: desertgirl
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Or a lot of people are so bible illiterate they can't tell what's right and what isn't.
I think this is the bottom line ........
It's better to encourage them to read the Bible (and I always suggest starting with the NT) rather than putting them down for lacking intellect or for picking a silly little book to read.
I think it's important to be willing to meet people where they are in their journey. Some people are not ready to read the Bible. My mother-in-law was visiting my husband and me a few years back. She was not a Christian at the time. She was worried about her husband's health. We were spending the evening with an older couple (Christian) when my mother-in-law asked "Are you ever afraid of the future?" My neighbor told her "No, I'm not. Would you like me to tell you why?" My mother-in-law said yes. My neighbor shared Jesus with her and together with her husband led my mother-in-law in accepting Jesus as her Lord and Savior.
I was awestruck watching this exchange between my neighbors and my mother in law. I wanted so much to get my mother-in-law a Bible, but when I suggested it she refused to accept one. I had another book in my collection by Stormie Omartian "The Power of the Praying Woman." I asked if she'd take that book instead and she agreed.
I did send her a Bible for Mother's Day the following year. We have to be flexible. We may miss an opportunity if we get too set in what we think is best. Some people may want to read a book like the Shack before the Bible. That's okay. It may come to be a bridge to the Bible.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 6:52:21 PM
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2jsmom
Posts: 1448
Joined: 4/11/2005
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The problem with that is that nonChristians reading the Shack are latching on to the ideas of God not judging anyone, not wanting repentance, and not even wanting people to become Christians. I realize that not everyone on this thread thinks that the book states these ideas, but I have heard several nonChristians say things like, "See, this book proves that God doesn't care what we do and that all religions are saying the same things."
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 7:44:49 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 268
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2jsmom
nonChristians say things like, "See, this book proves that God doesn't care what we do and that all religions are saying the same things."
If someone makes these claims, then we have an opportunity to talk to them. It's a bridge. We can use anything that we come across as a bridge. The Shack is a reality. People are going to read it. With reading, comes discussion. Take people where they are and go forward with it. If a person doesn't feel comfortable in suggesting someone else read The Shack, that's okay. We all have decisions to make each day about what we read, watch on television or at the movies. But when someone talks about something they have read, whether from the Shack or even the Bible itself, take the open door and see what God has to say through you to that person.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 8:12:20 PM
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mytortie
Posts: 302
Joined: 6/24/2009
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I know somebody that is using this book to teach a Sunday School Class. Is this appropiate(spelling)? I've never read this book, just some of the comments about it. Seems to me a bible and a Sunday School book would be the right materials to use.
(was rasberry)
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RE: "The Shack" - 7/6/2009 9:02:28 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2108
Status: offline
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quote:
God not judging anyone, not wanting repentance, and not even wanting people to become Christians.
For example, on page 165, "Return from your independence, Mackenzie" is a direct request for Mack's repentance. And on page182, "I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa,, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved" is the desire for us to become like Jesus. And regarding judgment, on page 164 Young speaks "He chose the way of the cross where mercy triumphs over justice because of love. Would you prefer he'd chosen justice for everyone?".
Why would Jesus die if there were not judgment?
Why would man need to repent if he were not a sinner?
Why would we be conformed to the image of Jesus if we were fine as we are?
Are we reading the same book?
kmangel, your thoughts are wonderful! Yes, we need to meet people where they are. There are open doors such as Paul encountered at Mars Hill. We need to engage people at the place where they are vulnerable, open to the truth, and pray they enter in. Thanks.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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). 
Would definitely not recommend it.
