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[Poll]
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War in Iraq
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| We are in Iraq because of oil |
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| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
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| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
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| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
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| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
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Total Votes : 444
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(last vote on : 1/9/2009 7:29:03 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/19/2008 3:15:33 PM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1177
Joined: 3/21/2007
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Thank you guys.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
Does anybody know anything about, and maybe a link, what the US Navy and something called "The 4th Fleet" that patrols Latin America, is doing in Brazilian waters, very near by the Petrobras (Brazilian Oil) plataforms? Just read in Brazilian news, that Brazilian President is very worry about the proximity of US Navy vessels to the plataforms and that Brazilian Navy must send vessels to patrol the plataforms and the "Pre-Sal" oil fields. The Brazilian Pres. preocupation is that the oil may be taken away" from Brazil by some "smart move" as the oil is in the ocean an etc..
It is kind of funny imagine the situation, at least into my head as most Brazilian vessels were bought from US Navy, they are old vessels dated maybe the Vietnam and older, I think..I know that because decades ago I had the opportunity to be inside few of them etc. Still have some stuff of US personal inside it, as helmet with a name on it..it was sold with it still inside. 
I'm asking this question here to not have to open a thread just about that and because it involve the US Navy and Oil. Thanks.
4/24/08 Navy Reestablishes U.S. 4th Fleet
quote:
No vessels or aircrafts will be permanently assigned to U.S. Fourth Fleet as part of the re-establishment. U.S. Fourth Fleet is an organizational fleet staffed to fulfill a planning and coordination mission.
U.S. Fourth Fleet will be focused on strengthening friendships and partnerships and will have five missions: support for peacekeeping, Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief, traditional maritime exercises, and counterdrug support operations.
http://www.cusns.navy.mil/command%20info.htm
I did not know that the Forth Fleet carry memories in itself to Brazilian history...this fleet was in Brazilian waters at the time of 1964 take over by military dictatorship...for this motive even the Brazilian Senate was strongly against the rebirth of it as it is an armed fleet also, I supose.
Not even the US Embassador in Brazil understood the overeaction Fourth Fleet was causing politicaly, he founds the reaction "strange":US Embassador says Brazil should be greatful to US
But it also :
US calls for increased surveillance in Brasil
There are difference in what USA see and others involved see and feel also:US Embassy about the 4th Flee
Thanks everybody I did not know the Fourth Flee rebirth was sensitive issue going on to some countries, particurlarly Brazil, and its Senate and politicians etc - not even talking about oil and plataforms here, but history and etc
You know it seems that nowdays US Military may kind of trying to help at 1st brings back bad days memories from its military of the past. Hope everybody understand that. Thanks!
Sorry moderators.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/30/2008 11:26:38 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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"War on terror" has not weakened al Qaeda: poll
"People across the world think the U.S.-led "war on terror" has not weakened al Qaeda and many believe it has actually strengthened Osama bin Laden's network, a poll for the BBC World Service said Monday.
The poll of almost 24,000 citizens found people in 22 out of 23 countries surveyed thought attempts to counter al Qaeda since its Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States had not weakened it."
I'm getting in my flightsuit and declare major operations over. We can't afford them anyway!
< Message edited by mapachito13 -- 10/1/2008 7:29:14 AM >
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/1/2008 11:59:45 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10376
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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Oh great. A poll to gauge terror conditions.
How scientific.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/1/2008 5:16:24 PM
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tinydancer2
Posts: 1177
Joined: 3/21/2007
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What I know is that terrorists do come in many faces, nationalties, agendas and plots.
I do have my eyes in South America and some new alliances over there..
Meanwhile... 
I'm organizing the Fleets pictures..just discovered a beautiful picture of the 4th Fleet. 4th Fleet
If somebody have pictures of the other fleets please give me the link.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/1/2008 6:51:25 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Oh great. A poll to gauge terror conditions.
How scientific.
Actually, statistically speaking 24,000 is a large sample. Margin of error becomes less than 2%. Statistics are part of science and as the ups and downs of the price of oil or the stock market shows, public perception plays a huge part in economics. Why is consumer confidence such an important gauge for business? And that is "just a poll".
I googled "Al Qaeda attacks" and a bunch of them came up. Almost every suicide bombing has the "hallmarks of an Al Qaeda attack". Amazing how in seven years they've become the greatest threat to world peace. Either they are being given more credit than they deserve or they really have had phenomenol growth.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/2/2008 8:05:50 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10376
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
I googled "Al Qaeda attacks" and a bunch of them came up. Almost every suicide bombing has the "hallmarks of an Al Qaeda attack". Amazing how in seven years they've become the greatest threat to world peace. Either they are being given more credit than they deserve or they really have had phenomenol growth. So maybe we should take a poll to find out the answer.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/2/2008 10:40:02 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
I googled "Al Qaeda attacks" and a bunch of them came up. Almost every suicide bombing has the "hallmarks of an Al Qaeda attack". Amazing how in seven years they've become the greatest threat to world peace. Either they are being given more credit than they deserve or they really have had phenomenol growth. So maybe we should take a poll to find out the answer.
Well this administration then is at fault for this perception by the public for they are the ones who cry "Al Qaeda" for every roadside bomb and whenever a suicide bomber strikes.
BTW, when you think about it an election is "just a poll"! In fact, I think that is where this word was derived?
BTW2, I admire a man who knows the not so subtle art of sarcasm. I missed it on the boards when you were sans computer (and energy for that matter). I was glad to see you get through that ordeal OK with rapier wit intact.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/2/2008 11:27:31 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10376
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
BTW2, I admire a man who knows the not so subtle art of sarcasm. I missed it on the boards when you were sans computer (and energy for that matter). I was glad to see you get through that ordeal OK with rapier wit intact. Made me 
Truly.
And yes. An election is just a poll. It is the public's perception of a candidate or issue that is what's up for grabs. And perceptions can often times be wrong.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/7/2008 2:26:58 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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Did anyone here know that despite the surge, there is still a level of violence in Iraq that would not be acceptable in any country, including ours?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/7/2008 3:34:59 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2351
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Did anyone here know that despite the surge, there is still a level of violence in Iraq that would not be acceptable in any country, including ours?
There you are you slacker. I have been noticing an increase in the number of things and people blowing themselves, each other, cars, buildings etc. up the last couple weeks and you haven't been keeping us up to date. Do I have to keep myself up to date on what's happening there? :P
Hehehehe. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/7/2008 4:44:30 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Did anyone here know that despite the surge, there is still a level of violence in Iraq that would not be acceptable in any country, including ours?
There you are you slacker. I have been noticing an increase in the number of things and people blowing themselves, each other, cars, buildings etc. up the last couple weeks and you haven't been keeping us up to date. Do I have to keep myself up to date on what's happening there? :P
Hehehehe. ; )
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-displaced5-2008oct05,0,3145944.story
If Iraq were so safe now, I ask why, as per this newspiece, there are more Iraqis LEAVING than returning. And why did the IRaqi leadership recently authorize doctors to carry guns? Well, it's because it's still extremely dangerous for professionals; doctors are often marked for death. Besides, I don't reckon a doctor who has no experience w/ handguns will be able to draw a 357 fast enough to take down 4 or 5 bad guys, each of whom are toting AK-47s.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/26/2008 10:09:33 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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I have 1 question for ALL of the Crosswalkers who supported this invasion on Iraq.
Do you believe Iraq is now better than it was under Saddam Hussein?
If your answer is yes, state WHY.
< Message edited by RichLP -- 10/26/2008 10:16:02 AM >
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/27/2008 4:05:31 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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GWB seems to be trying to make this war wider by ignoring international borders and attacking Al Qaeda in Syria. This not only rightfully ticks off the Syrians, who were starting to make political overtures towards us, but their friends in Russia as well.
Don't tread on me but we'll tread on whoever we darn well please!
The ends DO NOT justify the means!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/27/2008 4:37:44 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10376
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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So we shouldn't be going after bin Laden in Pakistan if we find out where he is there? After all, it might upset the apple cart.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 8:40:56 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
So we shouldn't be going after bin Laden in Pakistan if we find out where he is there? After all, it might upset the apple cart.
Not without cooperation from the Pakistanis. The ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS!
Our country is the first to DEMAND that others abide by international law and respect others borders (We went to war with Iraq in the first Gulf War over this principle.) BUT we are just like Russia or China when it comes to respecting other countries borders. We don't!
What happens when a helicopter or plane in Syrian or Pakistani airspace is shot down? Special forces troops taken prisoner? Do we go to war with them too? Take hundreds of thousands of troops (not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars) and a resumption of the draft to "democratize" two more countries?
Let's be a "trigger-happy" America and let's see if the world is on our side this time! Or does Bush WANT WWIII? He's got only ten more weeks to do it. Besides, if finding his buddy Bin Laden was his "top" priority more progress would have been made to take him out.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 12:42:09 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
GWB seems to be trying to make this war wider by ignoring international borders and attacking Al Qaeda in Syria. This not only rightfully ticks off the Syrians, who were starting to make political overtures towards us, but their friends in Russia as well.
Don't tread on me but we'll tread on whoever we darn well please!
The ends DO NOT justify the means!
George Herbert Walker Bush had not forgotten the failed attempt by Syria to destroy an Israeli airliner at Heathrow 22 years ago. But Bush 41 was savvy and informed enough to know that he needed Syrian cooperation in the Persian Gulf War. Then Secretary of State James Baker even spoke of Syria positively, calling that country "a major Arab country who happens to share the same goals we do."
Baker met Hafez Al-Assad in 1990 and not much after, Assad met President Bush 41 himself. Bush wanted Syrian help in the campaign against Saddam Hussein. Bush 41 also promised to hold an Arab-Israeli peace conference after the liberation of Kuwait.
Once Desert Storm was underway, Bush 41 successfully kept Israel out of the conflict, a considerable achievement (and a demonstration of staggering self-control by the Israelis) as Hussein launched Scuds on Tel Aviv. This was done so Syria would not be angered.
Bush rewarded Syria for its cooperation with a free hand in Lebanon. And later in 1991, the Madrid Conference was held.
Years later, Bush 41 spoke well of Syria, calling it a "key to the achievement of enduring and comprehensive peace" in that region. Syrian leaders were pleased and slowly, overtures towards us began. This occurred at the same time President Bill Clinton twice met Assad.
Now Bush 43 attacks Syria ostensibly to hunt down Al-Qaeda, but the dead were civilians. US troops walked out of choppers which landed on Syrian soil and attacked. Some may claim the US maneuver successfully struck terrorists, but why the silence? The Bush administration nears its end with very little popular support, a colossal quagmire, and overtures to North Korea which some in the GOP itself call appeasement and capitulation. Bush can use a foreign policy success and to claim victory over Al-Qaeda would be a way to do so. But the US was silent at first, whereas Syria immediately told the world of this event and vehemently condemned it. There was nothing for Bush to brag about because in all probability no Al-Qaeda operatives were killed.
This was an unmistakable act of aggression and a violation of another country's sovereignty. This after Syria did a huge favor to Iraqis by accepting over a million Iraqi refugees, at a high cost to itself; after Syria tightened control on its side of the border w/ Iraq.
My cynical side tells me this was also crafted to give a boost to the John McCain/Sarah Palin ticket, and also to make life harder for an Obama presidential administration. The Syrians may be slightly soothed if Obama takes the White House, but they'll still be angry at America even after Bush 43 is gone.
Once again, the son has underperformed the father - and miserably so.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 2:02:41 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10376
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
Not without cooperation from the Pakistanis. The ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS! And the Pakistanis have already said they would not cooperate. So, if that means that al Qaeda and bin Laden are left alone to rebuild and strengthen, then so be it. Right?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 2:09:32 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
This was an unmistakable act of aggression and a violation of another country's sovereignty. This after Syria did a huge favor to Iraqis by accepting over a million Iraqi refugees, at a high cost to itself; after Syria tightened control on its side of the border w/ Iraq.
My cynical side tells me this was also crafted to give a boost to the John McCain/Sarah Palin ticket, and also to make life harder for an Obama presidential administration. The Syrians may be slightly soothed if Obama takes the White House, but they'll still be angry at America even after Bush 43 is gone.
Once again, the son has underperformed the father - and miserably so.[/font][/size]
I always wonder what would happen in this country if that happened to us. If we were on the receiving end of this sort of a military operation. Everyone would be up in arms about the assault on our sovreignty.
Of course, it seems US sovreignty is all that matters to some people and the "might makes right" and "America right or wrong" philosophy still lives on! Rule of Law? Pish-Posh!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 2:14:42 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
This was an unmistakable act of aggression and a violation of another country's sovereignty. This after Syria did a huge favor to Iraqis by accepting over a million Iraqi refugees, at a high cost to itself; after Syria tightened control on its side of the border w/ Iraq.
My cynical side tells me this was also crafted to give a boost to the John McCain/Sarah Palin ticket, and also to make life harder for an Obama presidential administration. The Syrians may be slightly soothed if Obama takes the White House, but they'll still be angry at America even after Bush 43 is gone.
Once again, the son has underperformed the father - and miserably so.
I always wonder what would happen in this country if that happened to us. If we were on the receiving end of this sort of a military operation. Everyone would be up in arms about the assault on our sovreignty.
Of course, it seems US sovreignty is all that matters to some people and the "might makes right" and "America right or wrong" philosophy still lives on! Rule of Law? Pish-Posh!
We would be clamoring for the USAF to fly to that country and to bomb them to oblivion on the very same day it happened.
Syria wishes to do the same; at least, a good number of Syrians most probably. They don't because the United States is too strong.
The United States would never have done this to Russia or to China (even though they bombed the Chinese embassy of an Eastern European country in 1999).
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 10/28/2008 2:35:11 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2351
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Let's be a "trigger-happy" America and let's see if the world is on our side this time! Or does Bush WANT WWIII? He's got only ten more weeks to do it. Besides, if finding his buddy Bin Laden was his "top" priority more progress would have been made to take him out.
The fact there is this Iraq thread with over 5900 posts suggests that Dubya never considered Bin Laden his top priority.
quote:
And the Pakistanis have already said they would not cooperate. So, if that means that al Qaeda and bin Laden are left alone to rebuild and strengthen, then so be it. Right?
If it's a quick shot at Bin Laden then take it and that alone. We can't handle operations in a little no man's land like Afghanistan and Iraq with 20ish million people I have absolutely no desire to extend our troops into a nation with a tottering economy, 200+ million people armed with nukes whose reason for having those nukes was to protect its soil. They have a million man standing military plus reserves. One doesn't just decide they want to waltz into Pakistan unless one is a megalomaniac or Dubya. It's a mighty fine way to treat a nation that Dubya has often held up as being so crucial to the GWoR.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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If some other country stationed troops here in America, I'd let them stay as long as they liked! 
